Quoting jammer2:

Sorry Dave, but from where I sit it looks like Obama at least tries to address the issues...McCain has lost focus and is not even trying to talk about what needs to be done...all I see from him now is a win at any cost mentality driven by a fighter jock ego, making him suspect, in my book...I dont appreciate Obama rolling around in the mud, either...if one insists on taking the moral high ground, one MUST be prepared to let the mud land where it will, no matter the damage...thats why its called the moral high ground... My fears about the man are all about his stability...I'm pretty well convinced he is 'damaged goods' in physical and psychological terms...The longer this thing has gone on the more strange he's gotten...His firing almost his entire original team and bringing in Schmidt, the Karl Rove trained hatchetman, the hard right turn onto Sarah Palin highway, the complete negativity of his campaign...where is the John McCain that almost got my vote?
He brought an undereducated, almost inarticulate first term gov from the back of NOWHERE with almost no vetting and proudly wants to place her one 73 year old heartbeat away from the most powerful office on the planet...
a person that couldn't handle an interview with Katie Couric...how well will she do with Kim, or Putin?
Dave, he's gone horribly wrong and no way should he be The Man...

Sorry Dave, but from where I sit it looks like Obama at least tries to address the issues...McCain has lost focus and is not even trying to talk about what needs to be done...all I see from him now is a win at any cost mentality driven by a fighter jock ego, making him suspect, in my book...I dont appreciate Obama rolling around in the mud, either...if one insists on taking the moral high ground, one MUST be prepared to let the mud land where it will, no matter the damage...thats why its called the moral high ground... My fears about the man are all about his stability...I'm pretty well convinced he is 'damaged goods' in physical and psychological terms...The longer this thing has gone on the more strange he's gotten...His firing almost his entire original team and bringing in Schmidt, the Karl Rove trained hatchetman, the hard right turn onto Sarah Palin highway, the complete negativity of his campaign...where is the John McCain that almost got my vote?
He brought an undereducated, almost inarticulate first term gov from the back of NOWHERE with almost no vetting and proudly wants to place her one 73 year old heartbeat away from the most powerful office on the planet...
a person that couldn't handle an interview with Katie Couric...how well will she do with Kim, or Putin?
Dave, he's gone horribly wrong and no way should he be The Man...

Quoting jammer2:

JOHN McCAIN during the 2000 campaign...
McCain 2000: "Uh, I, I just have to rely on the good judgment of the voters not to buy into these negative attack ads. Sooner or later, people are going to figure out if all you run is negative attack ads you don't have much of a vision for the future or you're not ready to articulate it." [The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, 2/21/2000]
Johnny, we hardly know ya...anymore.

JOHN McCAIN during the 2000 campaign...
McCain 2000: "Uh, I, I just have to rely on the good judgment of the voters not to buy into these negative attack ads. Sooner or later, people are going to figure out if all you run is negative attack ads you don't have much of a vision for the future or you're not ready to articulate it." [The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer, 2/21/2000]
Johnny, we hardly know ya...anymore.

Quoting jammer2:

I found this article just after writing my earlier comment...
I didnt think it would start this soon...
International Herald Tribune date 24 Sep.
Hundreds of times in the past three weeks, cable television viewers here have been the exclusive audience for two of the roughest advertisements of the political season.
One links Senator Barack Obama with the former mayor of Detroit, Kwame Kilpatrick, an African-American whose political career unraveled in scandal. The other features Obama's former pastor, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright Jr., also an African-American, and his now-notorious sermon that contained the words "God damn America."
The ads, from a political action committee that is not connected with the Republican presidential campaign of Senator John McCain, are running only here, in Macomb County, which is largely populated by white, unionized auto workers - once considered "Reagan Democrats" - whose votes could largely determine which candidate wins Michigan, a state vital to both sides.
The ads point up the unusual nature of the harshest political attacks this year: They are not coming with the loud, nationally recognized cannon blast of the type produced by the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" against Senator John Kerry in 2004, but rather as more stealthy, narrowly targeted rifle shots from smaller groups armed with incendiary material.
In Obama's case, the messages have frequently sought to paint him as foreign. Among these is the chain e-mail messages sent for months to Jewish areas of Florida, suburban Philadelphia and other swing states that portray Obama as Muslim (he is Christian). This week, a hate group calling itself the League of American Patriots distributed 8,000 fliers to homes in Roxbury, a working-class town in Northern New Jersey, portraying Obama as Osama Bin Laden and including language that derided African-Americans.
The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks extremist groups, said the fliers, initially reported by The Star-Ledger newspaper in Newark, were the first overtly racist tracts of their kind this election season.
The ads running in Macomb County against Obama come from a group called Freedom's Defense Fund, a political action committee based in Washington that was formed four years ago and raises money from conservatives around the country. The ads have stood out because of what local critics say are their racial overtones and because of the group's connections - including links to its paid consultant, Jerome Corsi, the author of a highly negative, largely discredited political biography of Obama, "Obama Nation."
"That's all they are - race-oriented," said Ed Bruly, chairman of the Democratic Party of Macomb. "I think some people will be affected by it. Others will see it for what it is."
That is a view shared by Democratic leaders, including Michigan's governor, Jennifer Granholm, who in an interview with MSNBC last week said of the ad campaign, "The fact that it is being run in a predominantly white suburb tells you that there is an explicit effort to try to divide people by race."
Todd Zirkle, executive director of Freedom's Defense Fund, said race had "zero" to do with the spots.
"That's the standard retort when you want to say, 'Don't listen to these people,"' Zirkle said.
He said the group's intention was to show Obama's affiliations - although relations between Obama and Kilpatrick were known to have been tense. He said future ads would highlight Obama's ties to the developer Antoin Rezko, a former financial backer of Obama's who has been convicted of fraud, and to the Weather Underground founder William Ayers, with whom Obama worked on an education commission in Illinois and whose past Obama has repudiated.
Zirkle said a fifth spot would highlight Obama's supposed support for the Kenyan prime minister, and a former rebel leader, Raila Odinga. Zirkle did not disclose the script of that ad, but Corsi's book asserts, without substantiation, that Obama has been a close supporter of the African leader. Obama remained neutral in the Kenyan elections.
Officials with Freedom's Defense Fund, which gives Corsi's book to its donors, said they had paid Corsi only to help write fund-raising appeals. Federal returns show he was paid $15,000 as a fund-raising consultant. But the details of his book provide a thread that runs through several anti-Obama groups.
One of the details is the National Campaign Fund, a group directed by Floyd Brown, who helped produce the attack ads that linked Governor Michael Dukakis of Massachusetts with the rapist and killer Willie Horton in the 1988 presidential campaign. An ad that Brown hopes to run against Obama on television this autumn - and currently featured on his group's Web site - cites Corsi's book in trying to paint Obama as a Muslim.
Brown said in an interview that he had spoken with Corsi, whom he said he had known "for years," but Corsi is not listed as a formal consultant. Federal filings show that Brown's group has spent more than $30,000 for a direct-mail campaign, the content of which he would not disclose.(END)
'nuff said...

I found this article just after writing my earlier comment...
I didnt think it would start this soon...
International Herald Tribune date 24 Sep.
Hundreds of times in the past three weeks, cable television viewers here have been the exclusive audience for two of the roughest advertisements of the political season.
One links Senator Barack Obama with the former mayor of Detroit, Kwame Kilpatrick, an African-American whose political career unraveled in scandal. The other features Obama's former pastor, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright Jr., also an African-American, and his now-notorious sermon that contained the words "God damn America."
The ads, from a political action committee that is not connected with the Republican presidential campaign of Senator John McCain, are running only here, in Macomb County, which is largely populated by white, unionized auto workers - once considered "Reagan Democrats" - whose votes could largely determine which candidate wins Michigan, a state vital to both sides.
The ads point up the unusual nature of the harshest political attacks this year: They are not coming with the loud, nationally recognized cannon blast of the type produced by the "Swift Boat Veterans for Truth" against Senator John Kerry in 2004, but rather as more stealthy, narrowly targeted rifle shots from smaller groups armed with incendiary material.
In Obama's case, the messages have frequently sought to paint him as foreign. Among these is the chain e-mail messages sent for months to Jewish areas of Florida, suburban Philadelphia and other swing states that portray Obama as Muslim (he is Christian). This week, a hate group calling itself the League of American Patriots distributed 8,000 fliers to homes in Roxbury, a working-class town in Northern New Jersey, portraying Obama as Osama Bin Laden and including language that derided African-Americans.
The Southern Poverty Law Center, which tracks extremist groups, said the fliers, initially reported by The Star-Ledger newspaper in Newark, were the first overtly racist tracts of their kind this election season.
The ads running in Macomb County against Obama come from a group called Freedom's Defense Fund, a political action committee based in Washington that was formed four years ago and raises money from conservatives around the country. The ads have stood out because of what local critics say are their racial overtones and because of the group's connections - including links to its paid consultant, Jerome Corsi, the author of a highly negative, largely discredited political biography of Obama, "Obama Nation."
"That's all they are - race-oriented," said Ed Bruly, chairman of the Democratic Party of Macomb. "I think some people will be affected by it. Others will see it for what it is."
That is a view shared by Democratic leaders, including Michigan's governor, Jennifer Granholm, who in an interview with MSNBC last week said of the ad campaign, "The fact that it is being run in a predominantly white suburb tells you that there is an explicit effort to try to divide people by race."
Todd Zirkle, executive director of Freedom's Defense Fund, said race had "zero" to do with the spots.
"That's the standard retort when you want to say, 'Don't listen to these people,"' Zirkle said.
He said the group's intention was to show Obama's affiliations - although relations between Obama and Kilpatrick were known to have been tense. He said future ads would highlight Obama's ties to the developer Antoin Rezko, a former financial backer of Obama's who has been convicted of fraud, and to the Weather Underground founder William Ayers, with whom Obama worked on an education commission in Illinois and whose past Obama has repudiated.
Zirkle said a fifth spot would highlight Obama's supposed support for the Kenyan prime minister, and a former rebel leader, Raila Odinga. Zirkle did not disclose the script of that ad, but Corsi's book asserts, without substantiation, that Obama has been a close supporter of the African leader. Obama remained neutral in the Kenyan elections.
Officials with Freedom's Defense Fund, which gives Corsi's book to its donors, said they had paid Corsi only to help write fund-raising appeals. Federal returns show he was paid $15,000 as a fund-raising consultant. But the details of his book provide a thread that runs through several anti-Obama groups.
One of the details is the National Campaign Fund, a group directed by Floyd Brown, who helped produce the attack ads that linked Governor Michael Dukakis of Massachusetts with the rapist and killer Willie Horton in the 1988 presidential campaign. An ad that Brown hopes to run against Obama on television this autumn - and currently featured on his group's Web site - cites Corsi's book in trying to paint Obama as a Muslim.
Brown said in an interview that he had spoken with Corsi, whom he said he had known "for years," but Corsi is not listed as a formal consultant. Federal filings show that Brown's group has spent more than $30,000 for a direct-mail campaign, the content of which he would not disclose.(END)
'nuff said...

Quoting jammer2:

With six weeks to go, are people being reached by McCain-Palin or did the McCain people shoot themselves in the foot?
However superficial any one group may be, is the hype working or is there real substance there? Does the McCain campaign have the legs to make it and win?
My gut feeling is that its not as close as it seems...there is a sense of...desperate victim to the McCain movement, something that feels like defeated but still dangerous...if there is a move to be made it has to be in the last two weeks, enough time to work but not enough time to effectively counter...I have a feeling both the race and sexism cards will be played in the last weeks in a bid to widen base support from the more radical party elements and give the wobblers an excuse to vote white...and not feel racist...nothing overt, but an attack from a non-affiliated group, like the swift boat attack but in the closing rounds...

With six weeks to go, are people being reached by McCain-Palin or did the McCain people shoot themselves in the foot?
However superficial any one group may be, is the hype working or is there real substance there? Does the McCain campaign have the legs to make it and win?
My gut feeling is that its not as close as it seems...there is a sense of...desperate victim to the McCain movement, something that feels like defeated but still dangerous...if there is a move to be made it has to be in the last two weeks, enough time to work but not enough time to effectively counter...I have a feeling both the race and sexism cards will be played in the last weeks in a bid to widen base support from the more radical party elements and give the wobblers an excuse to vote white...and not feel racist...nothing overt, but an attack from a non-affiliated group, like the swift boat attack but in the closing rounds...

Quoting jammer2:

Quoting: Originally posted by dave45039 "Yes, seems some of us are mindless and superficial. Specifically women" Yes, I agree......;-) see how easy it is to misquote someone ;-) "the song is from the album 'Free Your mind...' I thought when I saw the movie that sounded familiar, still like to use it. "Thank you, Ms. Tepring! You are a super source of info...makes me wish i had listened more in school" Hell Jammer, if we had all listened more in school, who would have bought all those black leather jackets ;-)? "Dave - ya you are referring to the "Bradley Effect" I was worried about that with Deval Patrick who was polling about 5 points more than the other republican person. But now analysts think th..." Thanks Tepring, that's the one I remember reading. ANEWWORLD; I don't want to give the impression that I'm hoping for a landslide, I'm not sure that would be a good thing as it would be taken as a mandate, and I'm sure the christian coalition would try to benefit from that... Just a narrow win is fine with me....

Hell Jammer, if we had all listened more in school, who would have bought all those black leather jackets ;-)?

for me it was white shirts, black suits and skinny black ties...leather came much later...

Quoting jammer2:

Thank you, Ms. Tepring! You are a super source of info...makes me wish i had listened more in school...

Thank you, Ms. Tepring! You are a super source of info...makes me wish i had listened more in school...